Trace out WW I veteran

Sunday, April 29, 2007
This is interesting. May be people can trace out the WWI veteran.

Dear people from the Magar Study Center
My Name is Philip Scheffner. I am a filmmaker from Berlin, Germany.
Right now I am working on a documentary film project with the title "The Halfmoon Files".
In this context I would like to ask you a question - but first I would like to give you some idea about the film project:
The film is trying to find out more about several soldiers who served in the Indian army during WW1 in France and Belgium (Western front)
They were captured by the German troops and have been detained in a POW camp in Wünsdorf, close to Berlin, Germany.
German Scientists recorded their voices on Shellac Records in 1916.
These recordings are still existing in an archive at the Humboldt University, Berlin.
The Film project takes these existing sound recordings as a starting point to collect information about the biographies of the people who are speaking and to search for today living family members and relatives of the soldiers.
So that their voices will not remain “scientific” data in an archive – but testimonies of real people.
People who had a personal history, who had fears and wishes, and a family waiting back home.
A family which – till today - most probably has no idea that there is a sound recording of their great-grandfather existing in a German archive.

One of the soldiers i am looking for was considered to be a Magar.(so the data of the scientists say)
His name was Bhawan Singh. He was born in Almora and went to the Mission High school.
Later he joined the army in Lansdown (don't know which regiment)
His cast is mentioned as "Pun". It is also said that he belongs to a "good" family -which meant that they must have been relatively wealthy.... The soundfile i have is spoken in the language "Khas". In his text he is speaking about various forms of ghosts.
He is mentioning three different ghosts there: one which is like a rag lying on the street and catching the feet of people passing by. one, which has its eyes in the chest and eating up people. one which is living in the ,mountains with his dog" - also eating up people. Maybe these stories also belong to a mythology of a certain community...
I would like to ask if you have any idea how i could find out more about Bhawan Singh. Maybe you know somebody in Almora who could be helpful or some scientist who is a specialist in Gurkha languages and who could be of any help. I could also send you the soundfile as an mp3 if you want to.
I am planning to go to India in November and try to see if i can find out more....
If you have any ideas or suggestions I would be really thankful!
Thanks a lot for your efforts
with kind regards
philip scheffner
pong
Kröger & Scheffner GbR

Philip Scheffner
Skalitzer Str. 62
10997 Berlin
fon / fax +49-30-61076098
mobile: +49-177-2551966
email:
www.pong-berlin.de

Need for more research on Magars

After going through literature, though very limited in extent, we still do not find concrete answers for many questions related with the origin and history of Nepalese people--and Magars in particular. It appears to be more confusing than before. This could have been due to my ignorance. There are equal chances that these Westerners' kaleidoscope of perception may have been slightly different from Nepali historians. However, I see many areas for supplementary studies and archeological works, may be just to unravel the veiled secrets, and straighten out controversies, still rampant, pertaining to the origin and history of the people of Nepal.

I agree with Perceval Landon when he says “many questions relating to earlier days remain undecided is still unfortunately true, and the world will have to wait for the thorough examination and collation of the unpublished manuscript treasures of Kathmandu before a final chronology and chronicle of Nepalese can be begun." There are few things, which remain to be done, and those are--protect and conserve the already found evidences and documents for ready references for future researches and studies and engage professionals in extensive research works. While doing all these we should keep ourselves sincerely honest, neutral and free from any prejudices.

The above paragraghs are extract from the article "Magars Through the Eyes of Western Writers: A Socio-Anthropological Review", published in "Shodhmala", a Journal of Magar Studies Center, 2005. Visit http://www.magarstudiescenter.org.np for the complete text and many other materials.

Monpas and Mangars!

An email received....

I happened to read about a tibeto- burmese tribe called MONPAS, who were once said to have lived throughout Bhutan, Assam and Sikkim, having had princely states of their own,and ruling out of strong fortifications called Dzongs. The ancient history of Sikkim also states that a tribe called Mon lived there. Lately, they are scattered in Bhutan and Arunachal Pradesh. I am inclined to think that there maybe a close connection between them and the Mangars (Magars), since it is said that the Magars were residing in Sikkim before the advent of Bhutias in fortifications also called Dzongs, there are still some places in Sikkim called Magar Dongs. However, this is only a thought.

T. Thapa

Ideas on Constituent Assembly and Constitution Writing

The meeting of Magar Sangh Central Committee has decided to form a Working Committee to prepare a concept paper on CA and Constitutional changes. I am the convener. Other members of the Committee are Trilok Singh Thapa, Sangini Rana, and Bhoj Bikram Budha. We had first round meeting today. Almost all Magar Studies Center members and many other Magar intellectuals were present. We have decided to prepare the paper on the following headings:

-Listing the key Magar issues/Major concerns of Magars to be addressed
-Interim Constitution-Constituent Assembly
-Constitution re-writing

You are kindly requested to send in any type of information or your opinion on these subjects. We hope to present this paper within few weeks time in one of the seminar and then hand over to Magar Sangh.

Wishing only is not going to pay; it needs toil

Usually all seminars and workshops end up with sentimental feelings that we should get organised, we should try to get more seats in the parliament, we should improve education of Magars and we should be economically vibrant society etc. etc. But what after that? The need to do is to translate these feelings into action plan and programs.

Wednesday, April 12, 2006

Present situation and Magar Society

Dr. Keshar Jung Baral Magar, Associate Professor in PN Campus Pokhara, presented a discussion paper on “Current Situation and Magar Society” on 22 Srawan 2062(6 Aug 2005). The population distributions of Magar, speakers of Magar language, culture, religion, education, and the role of Magar Sangh in future were the contents of the paper. Mr. Ujir Magar commented on the paper. The paper will be published in our web sites when we get it from Dr. Baral.

I think Magars have progressed in some areas to some extent- -but not to the level of satisfaction. Magars have not been able to hold seats in power centres, like—politics, bureaucracy, police, army, educational institutions, civic society, economic sector, judiciary, media, etc. Unless we hold power we do not possess bargaining power; we can not threaten nor can we promise.

I think it is relevant to mention about the findings of one day workshop on SWOT Analysis of Magar institutions organized on 19 Asar 2061 organized by Magar Studies Center:

1)Practically all Magar institutions/associations do not have their long strategic plan.

2)The organization structures are portfolio based rather than specific task based.

3)All organizations lack skilled manpower to handle their activities.
4)They have no networking. They have very little lateral communication with district and other Magar organizations. Many of them also do not have access to GO, NGO, INGO at district level.

5)They have not been able to tap open and available resources. For example:

a.They have not been able to use intellectuals.

b.The other resources have also been not properly utilized.

c.There are some gaps/duplications in programs.

d.There is no agreement to build one office complex for all the Magar institutions of Kathmandu valley.

Therefore we need to do some research for finding the reasons for pinpointing the impediments. Is it the current politics? If yes, what alternative system could be the best for us, why and how? Is it the illiteracy? Is it the socio-cultural practices? Is it the poverty? Is it the lack of institutional capacity? Or is it the religion for our failure? These questions should be answered in these research papers. Then we need to develop a long term strategic plan, policy, and program. There should be tasking, in other words, we need to divide areas to work--there should be separate institutions to work on different issues. All efforts must be well coordinated. Magar association and other institutions must play key role for this.

Finally, my congratulations and thanks go to Dr. Baral for his paper, Magar Students Association for organizing, and Janjati Sashaktikaran Pariyojana Lalitpur for funding this one day seminar. Thanks.

Converstaions on Magar language

I have posted the email discourse on Magar language. May be it will help some people find out more about this issue.
govind

Dear Thapaji,
That was not Dr. Thrasher's comment. He jsut passed it to us. I understand Dr. Allen W. Thrasher is Senior Reference Librarian /Southern Asia Section Asian Division at Library of Congress, in Washington DC.

Have you ever heard of George van Driem ? He was for some time in Nepal also. Prof. Ballabha Mani Dahal used to tell me about his works. Sadly, our linguists/scholars, mostly of Tribhuvan University, cite western schoalrs' works easily without any cross checking. I personally can't accept such intellectual tradition.

In fact George van Driem commented on your work [ Prachin Magar ra Akkha Lipi] even not mentioning your name. He has mentioned Dr. Harsha B. Budha's name there.

I wonder if van Driem had been able to to go through the works [ Treatise on Buddhism] of Subarnakar Rana Magar [1000 AD] and Ganga Rana Magar [1069 AD] .
Namaste,
BKR

MSThapa Magar wrote:
Dear Ranaji
Namaste. I appreciate your exercises to go in more depth about the history of Magar but my earlier email was in response to Mr. Allen W Thrasher who used the words " fantastic claim " . I have strong objection about the words he used. He has right to differ and refute but must come academically not satiring and humiliating the openion of other persons. He must learn to respect the view of other researchers.
M.S. Thapa Magar

"B. K. Rana" wrote:
Dear Thapaji,

I am confused whether your comment is directed to me or not. I also do not have command over 'classical Magar language'.I think you have published a book/booklet on classical Magar language also. But I do know Magar language both Kham and East&Central Magar language and little Kaike also. Kaike mostly sounds Bhote or Tibetan.

Please check below how George van Driem, a noted linguist in his , "Languages of the Himalayas",has commented on Akkha script you developed:
"Before the 1990 revolution, a rare Magar periodical entitled LaGghalI [sic: it should be LAGghalI- AT] appeared irregularly. In the atmosphere of political fervour prevailing in the years following the Nepalese revolution of 1990, various booklets were published which made fantastic claims. One such claim [identified BrAhmI script as of Magar origin]. Another claim was that the Magars are related to the Magyars or Hungarians, a fact which is argued solely on the basis of the similarity of the name, e.g. BuDA Magar (VS2053b). The latter claim must, however, be seen as just a recent episode in a long tradition of pseudo-scholarly publications attempting to relate the Magyars with any and every distant group. [Uxbond 1928 used this as part of a theory linking with Magyars with the Mundas and as far afield as the Maoris.]"

I was just writing on the paper 'LANGHALI' which used to come from Kathmandiu until few years ago and a recently founded 'Langhali Association USA' I was just discussing in plain romanization, not using any diacritic or IPA symbol [phonetic transcription]. Additionally, diacritics vary from a writer to another.
I don't know whether you have received my another email in whcih I have cited you on Magar 'na+di' for Sanskrit 'na+di'. Your contribution to classical Magar language and culture is great, it is always commendable.
Namaste,
BKR

MSThapa Magar wrote:
It is weird to see a comment from a person who has no command in classical Magar language. Though they pose themself as a linguist but cannot differentiate between LAcghali and Langhali.Such a megalomania person must take attention before satiring and humiliating other persons.
m.s.thapa

On BK Rana writes 22/4/2005
Magar language is a TB language. The central Magar and Kham Magar languages are different. The Kaike Magar language is even different.
'Langhali' [not LAGghalI] is a Central Magar Language term meaning 'villager or neighbour' [Langha > village with prefix ali> of or belonging to]. It means of the village.
We have been able to found a voluntary social organization in New York - Langhali Association USA. last year.
I myself am a Magar and hence 'Langhali' also.. There are lot more other books that you have cited. Does one have to accept whatever an otsiders write ?
As far as I understand, the Magars [Langhalis] have never claimed that Magyars are their ancestors. But a team of the Magyars of Hungary have visited in early 90s in search of their ancestors.
"In search for his ancestors, a Hungarian researcher, Alexander Choma De Korus [?], while en route via Lhasha of Tibet to Mongolia, died in Darjeeling in 1842. There is a memorial tablet erected in honor of him in Darjeeling" - one of the team members had written in a faxed message to me also.
Another Hungarian scholar Gyula Laszlo [The Magyars: Their Life and Civilization 1996] has ruled out any nearness between Magars and Magyars.
Both Dor Bahadur Bista 'Fatalism and Development [1994] and F. B. Hamilton "An Account of the Kingdom of Nepal' [1819] write Magars and the current Shah kings are of same origin.
We also believe in it as both the Shah Kings and Magars share exactly same cultures eve today. The priests in the king's guardian deity are always a Magar. There are lots of stuff on Magars and others in Brian Hodgson's Essays on the Language, Literature and Religion of Nepal and Tibet [1857].
Perceval Landon's Nepal [1928], Michael Oppitz's research article - The Wild Boar and the Plough: Origin Stories of the Northern Magars - in Kailash [1983]. Eden Vansittart has written profoundly on Magars in his 'The Gurkhas' [1906]. Recently, John Whelpton has also written in his book 'King Soldiers & Priests in Nepalese Politics and the Rise of Jung Bahadur [1830-1857] published in 1991.
The northern Magars are subdivided into Buda, Gharti, Pun and Roka. Some writers have written the Huns invaded Nepal and they became 'Pun'.
There are lot to write here. Thank you,
BKR

Allen W Thrasher wrote:
George van Driem, Languages of the Himalayas, Brill, 2001 (Handbuch der Orientalistik, Section 2. India. vol. 10), v. 2, p. 780, has this to say (I have rendered his standard transliteration into Harvard-Kyoto):

"Before the 1990 revolution, a rare Magar periodical entitled LaGghalI [sic: it should be LAGghalI- AT] appeared irregularly. In the atmosphere of political fervour prevailing in the years following the Nepalese revolution of 1990, various booklets were published which made fantastic claims. One such claim [identified BrAhmI script as of Magar origin]. Another claim was that the Magars are related to the Magyars or Hungarians, a fact which is argued solely on the basis of the similarity of the name, e.g. BuDA Magar (VS2053b). The latter claim must, however, be seen as just a recent episode in a long tradition of pseudo-scholarly publications attempting to relate the Magyars with any and every distant group. [Uxbond 1928 used this as part of a theory linking with Magyars with the Mundas and as far afield as the Maoris.]

Parts in square brackets are my summary.

Citations:
BuDa Magar, HarSa BahAdur. VS BhAdra 2053b (AD 1996). Magar jAti ra unkA sAmAjik saMskAr. Kathmandu: ZrImatI PuSpAvatI BuDA Magar.

Uxbond, F.A. 1938 Munda-Magyar-Maori, an INdian link bertween the antipodes: new tracks of Hungarian origins. London, Luzac and Co.

Van Driem considers Magar a Bodic language within the Tibeto-Burma, which further subdivision within the Bodic not yet clear. However, he uses the term Magaric to include Magar and Kham.

Allen Thrasher


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr@loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.
........................


This is a very interesting article which I have just read. This would throw the history of Magars back by thousands of years. It is sad that though we are such an ancient race, very few of us have been able to aggressively publicize our identity, history and our contributions to the world. In fact very few people would even acknowledge our contribution for the unification of Nepal itself, when the truth is written all over the walls. I really appreciate Dr. Thapa for the good work he is doing and wish that he will successfully strive to better our understanding of ourselves.

Anonymous