I have posted the email discourse on Magar language. May be it will help some people find out more about this issue.
govind
Dear Thapaji,
That was not Dr. Thrasher's comment. He jsut passed it to us. I understand Dr. Allen W. Thrasher is Senior Reference Librarian /Southern Asia Section Asian Division at Library of Congress, in Washington DC.
Have you ever heard of George van Driem ? He was for some time in Nepal also. Prof. Ballabha Mani Dahal used to tell me about his works. Sadly, our linguists/scholars, mostly of Tribhuvan University, cite western schoalrs' works easily without any cross checking. I personally can't accept such intellectual tradition.
In fact George van Driem commented on your work [ Prachin Magar ra Akkha Lipi] even not mentioning your name. He has mentioned Dr. Harsha B. Budha's name there.
I wonder if van Driem had been able to to go through the works [ Treatise on Buddhism] of Subarnakar Rana Magar [1000 AD] and Ganga Rana Magar [1069 AD] .
Namaste,
BKR
MSThapa Magar wrote:
Dear Ranaji
Namaste. I appreciate your exercises to go in more depth about the history of Magar but my earlier email was in response to Mr. Allen W Thrasher who used the words " fantastic claim " . I have strong objection about the words he used. He has right to differ and refute but must come academically not satiring and humiliating the openion of other persons. He must learn to respect the view of other researchers.
M.S. Thapa Magar
"B. K. Rana" wrote:
Dear Thapaji,
I am confused whether your comment is directed to me or not. I also do not have command over 'classical Magar language'.I think you have published a book/booklet on classical Magar language also. But I do know Magar language both Kham and East&Central Magar language and little Kaike also. Kaike mostly sounds Bhote or Tibetan.
Please check below how George van Driem, a noted linguist in his , "Languages of the Himalayas",has commented on Akkha script you developed:
"Before the 1990 revolution, a rare Magar periodical entitled LaGghalI [sic: it should be LAGghalI- AT] appeared irregularly. In the atmosphere of political fervour prevailing in the years following the Nepalese revolution of 1990, various booklets were published which made fantastic claims. One such claim [identified BrAhmI script as of Magar origin]. Another claim was that the Magars are related to the Magyars or Hungarians, a fact which is argued solely on the basis of the similarity of the name, e.g. BuDA Magar (VS2053b). The latter claim must, however, be seen as just a recent episode in a long tradition of pseudo-scholarly publications attempting to relate the Magyars with any and every distant group. [Uxbond 1928 used this as part of a theory linking with Magyars with the Mundas and as far afield as the Maoris.]"
I was just writing on the paper 'LANGHALI' which used to come from Kathmandiu until few years ago and a recently founded 'Langhali Association USA' I was just discussing in plain romanization, not using any diacritic or IPA symbol [phonetic transcription]. Additionally, diacritics vary from a writer to another.
I don't know whether you have received my another email in whcih I have cited you on Magar 'na+di' for Sanskrit 'na+di'. Your contribution to classical Magar language and culture is great, it is always commendable.
Namaste,
BKR
MSThapa Magar wrote:
It is weird to see a comment from a person who has no command in classical Magar language. Though they pose themself as a linguist but cannot differentiate between LAcghali and Langhali.Such a megalomania person must take attention before satiring and humiliating other persons.
m.s.thapa
On BK Rana writes 22/4/2005
Magar language is a TB language. The central Magar and Kham Magar languages are different. The Kaike Magar language is even different.
'Langhali' [not LAGghalI] is a Central Magar Language term meaning 'villager or neighbour' [Langha > village with prefix ali> of or belonging to]. It means of the village.
We have been able to found a voluntary social organization in New York - Langhali Association USA. last year.
I myself am a Magar and hence 'Langhali' also.. There are lot more other books that you have cited. Does one have to accept whatever an otsiders write ?
As far as I understand, the Magars [Langhalis] have never claimed that Magyars are their ancestors. But a team of the Magyars of Hungary have visited in early 90s in search of their ancestors.
"In search for his ancestors, a Hungarian researcher, Alexander Choma De Korus [?], while en route via Lhasha of Tibet to Mongolia, died in Darjeeling in 1842. There is a memorial tablet erected in honor of him in Darjeeling" - one of the team members had written in a faxed message to me also.
Another Hungarian scholar Gyula Laszlo [The Magyars: Their Life and Civilization 1996] has ruled out any nearness between Magars and Magyars.
Both Dor Bahadur Bista 'Fatalism and Development [1994] and F. B. Hamilton "An Account of the Kingdom of Nepal' [1819] write Magars and the current Shah kings are of same origin.
We also believe in it as both the Shah Kings and Magars share exactly same cultures eve today. The priests in the king's guardian deity are always a Magar. There are lots of stuff on Magars and others in Brian Hodgson's Essays on the Language, Literature and Religion of Nepal and Tibet [1857].
Perceval Landon's Nepal [1928], Michael Oppitz's research article - The Wild Boar and the Plough: Origin Stories of the Northern Magars - in Kailash [1983]. Eden Vansittart has written profoundly on Magars in his 'The Gurkhas' [1906]. Recently, John Whelpton has also written in his book 'King Soldiers & Priests in Nepalese Politics and the Rise of Jung Bahadur [1830-1857] published in 1991.
The northern Magars are subdivided into Buda, Gharti, Pun and Roka. Some writers have written the Huns invaded Nepal and they became 'Pun'.
There are lot to write here. Thank you,
BKR
Allen W Thrasher wrote:
George van Driem, Languages of the Himalayas, Brill, 2001 (Handbuch der Orientalistik, Section 2. India. vol. 10), v. 2, p. 780, has this to say (I have rendered his standard transliteration into Harvard-Kyoto):
"Before the 1990 revolution, a rare Magar periodical entitled LaGghalI [sic: it should be LAGghalI- AT] appeared irregularly. In the atmosphere of political fervour prevailing in the years following the Nepalese revolution of 1990, various booklets were published which made fantastic claims. One such claim [identified BrAhmI script as of Magar origin]. Another claim was that the Magars are related to the Magyars or Hungarians, a fact which is argued solely on the basis of the similarity of the name, e.g. BuDA Magar (VS2053b). The latter claim must, however, be seen as just a recent episode in a long tradition of pseudo-scholarly publications attempting to relate the Magyars with any and every distant group. [Uxbond 1928 used this as part of a theory linking with Magyars with the Mundas and as far afield as the Maoris.]
Parts in square brackets are my summary.
Citations:
BuDa Magar, HarSa BahAdur. VS BhAdra 2053b (AD 1996). Magar jAti ra unkA sAmAjik saMskAr. Kathmandu: ZrImatI PuSpAvatI BuDA Magar.
Uxbond, F.A. 1938 Munda-Magyar-Maori, an INdian link bertween the antipodes: new tracks of Hungarian origins. London, Luzac and Co.
Van Driem considers Magar a Bodic language within the Tibeto-Burma, which further subdivision within the Bodic not yet clear. However, he uses the term Magaric to include Magar and Kham.
Allen Thrasher
Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr@loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.
........................
This is a very interesting article which I have just read. This would throw the history of Magars back by thousands of years. It is sad that though we are such an ancient race, very few of us have been able to aggressively publicize our identity, history and our contributions to the world. In fact very few people would even acknowledge our contribution for the unification of Nepal itself, when the truth is written all over the walls. I really appreciate Dr. Thapa for the good work he is doing and wish that he will successfully strive to better our understanding of ourselves.
Anonymous
govind
Dear Thapaji,
That was not Dr. Thrasher's comment. He jsut passed it to us. I understand Dr. Allen W. Thrasher is Senior Reference Librarian /Southern Asia Section Asian Division at Library of Congress, in Washington DC.
Have you ever heard of George van Driem ? He was for some time in Nepal also. Prof. Ballabha Mani Dahal used to tell me about his works. Sadly, our linguists/scholars, mostly of Tribhuvan University, cite western schoalrs' works easily without any cross checking. I personally can't accept such intellectual tradition.
In fact George van Driem commented on your work [ Prachin Magar ra Akkha Lipi] even not mentioning your name. He has mentioned Dr. Harsha B. Budha's name there.
I wonder if van Driem had been able to to go through the works [ Treatise on Buddhism] of Subarnakar Rana Magar [1000 AD] and Ganga Rana Magar [1069 AD] .
Namaste,
BKR
MSThapa Magar
Dear Ranaji
Namaste. I appreciate your exercises to go in more depth about the history of Magar but my earlier email was in response to Mr. Allen W Thrasher who used the words " fantastic claim " . I have strong objection about the words he used. He has right to differ and refute but must come academically not satiring and humiliating the openion of other persons. He must learn to respect the view of other researchers.
M.S. Thapa Magar
"B. K. Rana"
Dear Thapaji,
I am confused whether your comment is directed to me or not. I also do not have command over 'classical Magar language'.I think you have published a book/booklet on classical Magar language also. But I do know Magar language both Kham and East&Central Magar language and little Kaike also. Kaike mostly sounds Bhote or Tibetan.
Please check below how George van Driem, a noted linguist in his , "Languages of the Himalayas",has commented on Akkha script you developed:
"Before the 1990 revolution, a rare Magar periodical entitled LaGghalI [sic: it should be LAGghalI- AT] appeared irregularly. In the atmosphere of political fervour prevailing in the years following the Nepalese revolution of 1990, various booklets were published which made fantastic claims. One such claim [identified BrAhmI script as of Magar origin]. Another claim was that the Magars are related to the Magyars or Hungarians, a fact which is argued solely on the basis of the similarity of the name, e.g. BuDA Magar (VS2053b). The latter claim must, however, be seen as just a recent episode in a long tradition of pseudo-scholarly publications attempting to relate the Magyars with any and every distant group. [Uxbond 1928 used this as part of a theory linking with Magyars with the Mundas and as far afield as the Maoris.]"
I was just writing on the paper 'LANGHALI' which used to come from Kathmandiu until few years ago and a recently founded 'Langhali Association USA' I was just discussing in plain romanization, not using any diacritic or IPA symbol [phonetic transcription]. Additionally, diacritics vary from a writer to another.
I don't know whether you have received my another email in whcih I have cited you on Magar 'na+di' for Sanskrit 'na+di'. Your contribution to classical Magar language and culture is great, it is always commendable.
Namaste,
BKR
MSThapa Magar
It is weird to see a comment from a person who has no command in classical Magar language. Though they pose themself as a linguist but cannot differentiate between LAcghali and Langhali.Such a megalomania person must take attention before satiring and humiliating other persons.
m.s.thapa
On BK Rana writes 22/4/2005
Magar language is a TB language. The central Magar and Kham Magar languages are different. The Kaike Magar language is even different.
'Langhali' [not LAGghalI] is a Central Magar Language term meaning 'villager or neighbour' [Langha > village with prefix ali> of or belonging to]. It means of the village.
We have been able to found a voluntary social organization in New York - Langhali Association USA. last year.
I myself am a Magar and hence 'Langhali' also.. There are lot more other books that you have cited. Does one have to accept whatever an otsiders write ?
As far as I understand, the Magars [Langhalis] have never claimed that Magyars are their ancestors. But a team of the Magyars of Hungary have visited in early 90s in search of their ancestors.
"In search for his ancestors, a Hungarian researcher, Alexander Choma De Korus [?], while en route via Lhasha of Tibet to Mongolia, died in Darjeeling in 1842. There is a memorial tablet erected in honor of him in Darjeeling" - one of the team members had written in a faxed message to me also.
Another Hungarian scholar Gyula Laszlo [The Magyars: Their Life and Civilization 1996] has ruled out any nearness between Magars and Magyars.
Both Dor Bahadur Bista 'Fatalism and Development [1994] and F. B. Hamilton "An Account of the Kingdom of Nepal' [1819] write Magars and the current Shah kings are of same origin.
We also believe in it as both the Shah Kings and Magars share exactly same cultures eve today. The priests in the king's guardian deity are always a Magar. There are lots of stuff on Magars and others in Brian Hodgson's Essays on the Language, Literature and Religion of Nepal and Tibet [1857].
Perceval Landon's Nepal [1928], Michael Oppitz's research article - The Wild Boar and the Plough: Origin Stories of the Northern Magars - in Kailash [1983]. Eden Vansittart has written profoundly on Magars in his 'The Gurkhas' [1906]. Recently, John Whelpton has also written in his book 'King Soldiers & Priests in Nepalese Politics and the Rise of Jung Bahadur [1830-1857] published in 1991.
The northern Magars are subdivided into Buda, Gharti, Pun and Roka. Some writers have written the Huns invaded Nepal and they became 'Pun'.
There are lot to write here. Thank you,
BKR
Allen W Thrasher
George van Driem, Languages of the Himalayas, Brill, 2001 (Handbuch der Orientalistik, Section 2. India. vol. 10), v. 2, p. 780, has this to say (I have rendered his standard transliteration into Harvard-Kyoto):
"Before the 1990 revolution, a rare Magar periodical entitled LaGghalI [sic: it should be LAGghalI- AT] appeared irregularly. In the atmosphere of political fervour prevailing in the years following the Nepalese revolution of 1990, various booklets were published which made fantastic claims. One such claim [identified BrAhmI script as of Magar origin]. Another claim was that the Magars are related to the Magyars or Hungarians, a fact which is argued solely on the basis of the similarity of the name, e.g. BuDA Magar (VS2053b). The latter claim must, however, be seen as just a recent episode in a long tradition of pseudo-scholarly publications attempting to relate the Magyars with any and every distant group. [Uxbond 1928 used this as part of a theory linking with Magyars with the Mundas and as far afield as the Maoris.]
Parts in square brackets are my summary.
Citations:
BuDa Magar, HarSa BahAdur. VS BhAdra 2053b (AD 1996). Magar jAti ra unkA sAmAjik saMskAr. Kathmandu: ZrImatI PuSpAvatI BuDA Magar.
Uxbond, F.A. 1938 Munda-Magyar-Maori, an INdian link bertween the antipodes: new tracks of Hungarian origins. London, Luzac and Co.
Van Driem considers Magar a Bodic language within the Tibeto-Burma, which further subdivision within the Bodic not yet clear. However, he uses the term Magaric to include Magar and Kham.
Allen Thrasher
Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr@loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.
This is a very interesting article which I have just read. This would throw the history of Magars back by thousands of years. It is sad that though we are such an ancient race, very few of us have been able to aggressively publicize our identity, history and our contributions to the world. In fact very few people would even acknowledge our contribution for the unification of Nepal itself, when the truth is written all over the walls. I really appreciate Dr. Thapa for the good work he is doing and wish that he will successfully strive to better our understanding of ourselves.
Anonymous
