Converstaions on Magar language

I have posted the email discourse on Magar language. May be it will help some people find out more about this issue.
govind

Dear Thapaji,
That was not Dr. Thrasher's comment. He jsut passed it to us. I understand Dr. Allen W. Thrasher is Senior Reference Librarian /Southern Asia Section Asian Division at Library of Congress, in Washington DC.

Have you ever heard of George van Driem ? He was for some time in Nepal also. Prof. Ballabha Mani Dahal used to tell me about his works. Sadly, our linguists/scholars, mostly of Tribhuvan University, cite western schoalrs' works easily without any cross checking. I personally can't accept such intellectual tradition.

In fact George van Driem commented on your work [ Prachin Magar ra Akkha Lipi] even not mentioning your name. He has mentioned Dr. Harsha B. Budha's name there.

I wonder if van Driem had been able to to go through the works [ Treatise on Buddhism] of Subarnakar Rana Magar [1000 AD] and Ganga Rana Magar [1069 AD] .
Namaste,
BKR

MSThapa Magar wrote:
Dear Ranaji
Namaste. I appreciate your exercises to go in more depth about the history of Magar but my earlier email was in response to Mr. Allen W Thrasher who used the words " fantastic claim " . I have strong objection about the words he used. He has right to differ and refute but must come academically not satiring and humiliating the openion of other persons. He must learn to respect the view of other researchers.
M.S. Thapa Magar

"B. K. Rana" wrote:
Dear Thapaji,

I am confused whether your comment is directed to me or not. I also do not have command over 'classical Magar language'.I think you have published a book/booklet on classical Magar language also. But I do know Magar language both Kham and East&Central Magar language and little Kaike also. Kaike mostly sounds Bhote or Tibetan.

Please check below how George van Driem, a noted linguist in his , "Languages of the Himalayas",has commented on Akkha script you developed:
"Before the 1990 revolution, a rare Magar periodical entitled LaGghalI [sic: it should be LAGghalI- AT] appeared irregularly. In the atmosphere of political fervour prevailing in the years following the Nepalese revolution of 1990, various booklets were published which made fantastic claims. One such claim [identified BrAhmI script as of Magar origin]. Another claim was that the Magars are related to the Magyars or Hungarians, a fact which is argued solely on the basis of the similarity of the name, e.g. BuDA Magar (VS2053b). The latter claim must, however, be seen as just a recent episode in a long tradition of pseudo-scholarly publications attempting to relate the Magyars with any and every distant group. [Uxbond 1928 used this as part of a theory linking with Magyars with the Mundas and as far afield as the Maoris.]"

I was just writing on the paper 'LANGHALI' which used to come from Kathmandiu until few years ago and a recently founded 'Langhali Association USA' I was just discussing in plain romanization, not using any diacritic or IPA symbol [phonetic transcription]. Additionally, diacritics vary from a writer to another.
I don't know whether you have received my another email in whcih I have cited you on Magar 'na+di' for Sanskrit 'na+di'. Your contribution to classical Magar language and culture is great, it is always commendable.
Namaste,
BKR

MSThapa Magar wrote:
It is weird to see a comment from a person who has no command in classical Magar language. Though they pose themself as a linguist but cannot differentiate between LAcghali and Langhali.Such a megalomania person must take attention before satiring and humiliating other persons.
m.s.thapa

On BK Rana writes 22/4/2005
Magar language is a TB language. The central Magar and Kham Magar languages are different. The Kaike Magar language is even different.
'Langhali' [not LAGghalI] is a Central Magar Language term meaning 'villager or neighbour' [Langha > village with prefix ali> of or belonging to]. It means of the village.
We have been able to found a voluntary social organization in New York - Langhali Association USA. last year.
I myself am a Magar and hence 'Langhali' also.. There are lot more other books that you have cited. Does one have to accept whatever an otsiders write ?
As far as I understand, the Magars [Langhalis] have never claimed that Magyars are their ancestors. But a team of the Magyars of Hungary have visited in early 90s in search of their ancestors.
"In search for his ancestors, a Hungarian researcher, Alexander Choma De Korus [?], while en route via Lhasha of Tibet to Mongolia, died in Darjeeling in 1842. There is a memorial tablet erected in honor of him in Darjeeling" - one of the team members had written in a faxed message to me also.
Another Hungarian scholar Gyula Laszlo [The Magyars: Their Life and Civilization 1996] has ruled out any nearness between Magars and Magyars.
Both Dor Bahadur Bista 'Fatalism and Development [1994] and F. B. Hamilton "An Account of the Kingdom of Nepal' [1819] write Magars and the current Shah kings are of same origin.
We also believe in it as both the Shah Kings and Magars share exactly same cultures eve today. The priests in the king's guardian deity are always a Magar. There are lots of stuff on Magars and others in Brian Hodgson's Essays on the Language, Literature and Religion of Nepal and Tibet [1857].
Perceval Landon's Nepal [1928], Michael Oppitz's research article - The Wild Boar and the Plough: Origin Stories of the Northern Magars - in Kailash [1983]. Eden Vansittart has written profoundly on Magars in his 'The Gurkhas' [1906]. Recently, John Whelpton has also written in his book 'King Soldiers & Priests in Nepalese Politics and the Rise of Jung Bahadur [1830-1857] published in 1991.
The northern Magars are subdivided into Buda, Gharti, Pun and Roka. Some writers have written the Huns invaded Nepal and they became 'Pun'.
There are lot to write here. Thank you,
BKR

Allen W Thrasher wrote:
George van Driem, Languages of the Himalayas, Brill, 2001 (Handbuch der Orientalistik, Section 2. India. vol. 10), v. 2, p. 780, has this to say (I have rendered his standard transliteration into Harvard-Kyoto):

"Before the 1990 revolution, a rare Magar periodical entitled LaGghalI [sic: it should be LAGghalI- AT] appeared irregularly. In the atmosphere of political fervour prevailing in the years following the Nepalese revolution of 1990, various booklets were published which made fantastic claims. One such claim [identified BrAhmI script as of Magar origin]. Another claim was that the Magars are related to the Magyars or Hungarians, a fact which is argued solely on the basis of the similarity of the name, e.g. BuDA Magar (VS2053b). The latter claim must, however, be seen as just a recent episode in a long tradition of pseudo-scholarly publications attempting to relate the Magyars with any and every distant group. [Uxbond 1928 used this as part of a theory linking with Magyars with the Mundas and as far afield as the Maoris.]

Parts in square brackets are my summary.

Citations:
BuDa Magar, HarSa BahAdur. VS BhAdra 2053b (AD 1996). Magar jAti ra unkA sAmAjik saMskAr. Kathmandu: ZrImatI PuSpAvatI BuDA Magar.

Uxbond, F.A. 1938 Munda-Magyar-Maori, an INdian link bertween the antipodes: new tracks of Hungarian origins. London, Luzac and Co.

Van Driem considers Magar a Bodic language within the Tibeto-Burma, which further subdivision within the Bodic not yet clear. However, he uses the term Magaric to include Magar and Kham.

Allen Thrasher


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Southern Asia Section
Asian Division
Library of Congress
Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732
fax 202-707-1724
athr@loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.
........................


This is a very interesting article which I have just read. This would throw the history of Magars back by thousands of years. It is sad that though we are such an ancient race, very few of us have been able to aggressively publicize our identity, history and our contributions to the world. In fact very few people would even acknowledge our contribution for the unification of Nepal itself, when the truth is written all over the walls. I really appreciate Dr. Thapa for the good work he is doing and wish that he will successfully strive to better our understanding of ourselves.

Anonymous
 

Who was king Mukunda Sen? Magar or Thakuri?

Who was king Mukunda Sen? Magar or Thakuri?

 On 12 Apr 2005 a music CD entitled “Maulakali Gaindakotai ma” was released. During the deliberations it was said that Mani Mukunda Sen, the King of Palpa, had once camped in Nawalparasi jungle. His soldiers installed the “Maula” to perform Puja to Kali deity. Since that time people have been worshiping in that temple. But the detail information about the King is missing. Who exactly was Mukunda Sen? Magar? Or, Thakuri? Some available information on this issue contradict each other.

I recently,  in Oct 2013, received an email from Arush Sen about him. 

ARUSH SEN WROTE: "Mani Mukunda Sen mero great great great great grandfather ho…Magar ta Mani mukunda sen ka army haru thiye, he was of thakuri dynasty…"

Read more
Magar and Mukunda Sen of Palpa by BKRana

Research on origin of Magar

The origin of Magar is still in speculations. There are information scattered here and there about Magars. But some of these are not based on the evidences, some are incomplete, some contradict each others, and moreover information are missing in between the periods of history.

John T. Hitchcock, in The Magars of Banyan Hill writes about Magars: Magar homeland is the middle mountain belt drained by the Narayani and its tributaries. One cannot travel very far anywhere in this area without encountering Magar shelters in high mountain pastures or Magar villages on mountain slopes and hilltops. When one takes the Longview of Magars who inhabit this region, one notices traits they have in common. They pursue a form of mixed agriculture and combine stock-raising with growing crops in fertilized fields. All observe caste restrictions and claim to be Hindus. All observe a marriage rule that forbids an alliance with the daughter of the father’s sister but encourages one with the daughter of the mother’s brother. And most Magar, as one of their two languages, speak a tongue that is part of a large Asiam language family, Tibeto-Burmese.

However, when one takes a closer view, differences appear, especially on each side of a line that divides their homeland roughly into northern and southern halves. The Magar tribe is split into number of sub tribes. In the southern half of the region, the sub tribes that predominate almost to the exclusion of any others are the Ale, Rana, Thapa, and Burathoki; it was in this southern area, anciently called the Bara Mangaranth, that Magars first made their appearance in written history. During the twelfth century, they sacked the Kathmandu Valley that long had been the seat of urban, civilized culture in Nepal. almost all Magars in this area carry on sedentary agriculture with emphasis on millet, maize, and in many areas, irrigated rice. The influence of Hinduism is strong, and as their house language the Magars here speak a Tibeto-Burman dialect called Magarkura.

Magar in the northern half of the area belong to a different group of subtribes. Here one finds the Bura, Gharti, Pun and Rokha. They also grow maize, and at lower altitudes grow irrigated rice; because most of them live at higher altitudes than Magars further south, there is more emphasis upon crops such as barley and potatoes, which are better suited to cold. There is more stock herding in the north, and some Magars follow a transhumant pattern, living at one place during the winter and shifting with their herds to high pastures during the summer. Northern Magars have been more lightly touched by Hinduism. Not all of them have retained an indigenous home language, but those who have speak a Tibeto-Burman dialect called Kamkura. It resembles Magarkura but the two languages are not mutually intelligible.

John T. Hitchcock further writes, “Magar origins are lost in obscurity. The tribe seems to have been part of a very ancient influx of Mongoloid, Tibeto-Burman speaking peoples into Nepal, probably from the north and east. It also seems probable, in view of differences between its northern and southern halves, that the tribe represents two different streams of migration…..In the legends of many peoples of world there are stories that tell how they came from some distant land to their present home. The Magars of Banyan Hill have no such legend. When asked where they came from they answer, ‘We have lived here always.’” 
(John T. Hitchcock, The Magars of Banyan Hill; Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1966, p.4)

The editors of the above book George and Louise Spindler write, “This is a case study of a people who have occupied and used their land for centuries, who have changed the very shape of the mountain upon which they live with their terraces, who have worn footpaths connecting farmsteads deep into the soil, and whose stone resting platforms for wayfarers are enclosed by the great roots of the banyan trees planted long ago to provide shade. They are a people who have no legends of origin from another place. They feel they belong where they are, and indeed they do, for the people fit the land and the land fits them. And not only do the people live on their land as they feel they always have, but their many godlings that control life and the resources upon which life is based are at home there also and must be treated with regular sacrifices of food.” (Ibid, p.vii)

Following are the extract from 'The Gurkhas' of Eden Vansittart (based upon the 'Notes on Nepal', 1895 AD and 'Notes on Gurkhas' 1890 AD), Anmol Publications, New Delhi, Re-print 1993 (The spellings are original and not altered):-

The Western division is inhabited by Doti and other non-Gurkha tribes and until the close of the last century was divided in, 22 separate principalities which were collectively called the Baisi Raj and were all tributary to the Raja of 'Yumila'-Jumla.

Baisi is derived from Bais (twenty two). The names of these principalities were-
Jumla, Jagwikot, Chain, Acham, Rugham, Musikot, Roalpa, Mallijanta, Balhang, Daelekh, Darimeka, Doti, Sallyan, Bamphi, Mellianta, Jehari, Kalagaon, Goriakot, Gutam, Gajur, Jajarkot, Bilaspur.(p. 3)

Towards the close of the last century the Central Division included in its limits, besides the Kingdom of Gurkha proper, 24 other independent principalities, collectively called the Chaubisia Raj, or 'country of the 24 kings'. These principalities were called- Lamzung, Tanhung, Golkot, Malibam, Sathung, Garhun, Rising, Ghiring, Deorali, Palpa, Pokhra, Bhirkot, Butwal, Gulmi, Nuwakeot, Kashi, Isma, Dharkot, Musikot, Argha, Pyung, Latahung, Kaikho, Piuthan. Previous to the conquest of the western hill by Gurkhas, Jumla was the chief of the 46 principalities into which the country between the Kali and the province of Gurkha proper was divided, and all of which were nominally tributary to the Raja of Jumla.(p. 4)

The aboriginal stock of Nepal is most undoubtedly Mongolian. This fact is inscribed in very plain characters, in their faces, forms, and languages. Amongst the aborigines of Nepal must be counted the Magars, Gurungs, Newars, Sunwars, Khambus, Yakhas, Yakthumbas, Limbus, Murmis, and Lepchas. (p.6)

……The most ancient records would seem to prove that Nepal was originally inhabited by Mongolians. Probably from one of the great waves of Mongolian conquest, which spread through the breadth of Asia from east to west, some side wave was washed over the bleak snows of the mighty Himalayas into the fertile plains and valleys of Nepal. Finding here a cool and bracing climate and fertile soil, this mass of Mongolians settled down and adopted the country as their own. But again, the southern boundary of Nepal rested on India, from whence continual streamlets of natives were finding their way into Nepal. (p. 8-9)

….In the Saka year 811, and Nepal Sambat 9(AD 889) on the 7th Sravara Sudi, a Saturday, Nanya, Deva Raja came from the south Karnataki country and entered Nepal. He brought with him the Saka Sahkala era and introduced it. Amongst the troops that there with him were Newars, from a country called Nayeva, who were Brahmaputra Chattris and Achars. He defeated the Malla Rajas, and established his court at Bhaktapur or Bhatgaon, he ruled over it as well as over Lalitapattan (present Patan), and Kantipur or Katmandu, and established a dynasty, which lasted about 220 years and gave six kings. The sixth and last king of this dynasty, by name Hari Deva, had at this time (about 1100 AD) a Magar in his service, who through the machinations of the ministers, was dismissed. This man returned to his home and praised Nepal as having houses with golden roofs and golden pranalis or dharas. The Magar Raja, by name Mukunda Sena, a brave and powerful monarch, having heard of this, came to Nepal from the west with a large number of mounted troops, and subdued Hari Deva, the son of Rama Sinha Deva. Of the Nepalese troops some were slain and others fled. Great confusion reigned in the three cities. The victorious soldiers broke and disfigured the images of the gods and sent the Bhairava, in front of Machindranatha, to their own country, Palpa and Botwal. With this Raja the Khas and Magar castes came to Nepal. These men having no mercy, committed great sins, and the southern face of Pashupati showed its frightful teeth, and sent a goddess named Maha-mari (pestilence) who, within a forthnight, cleared the country of the troops of Mukunda Sena. The Raja alone escaped to the east in disguise. On his way back to his own country he arrived at Devighat and died there.(pp. 15-16)

…..The famous Prime Minister Bhim Sen was the descendant of a Magar Thapa, as was also General Amar Sing.(p. 67)

To the north and to the west of Sallyan, numbers of Matwala Khas are to be found. They are rarely if ever found to the east of the Gandak river. There can be no doubt that this race found its origin somewhere about Sallyan or perhaps still further west. The Matwala Khas is generally the progeny of a Khas of Western Nepal with a Magar woman of Western Nepal. If the woman happens to belong to the Rana clan of the Magar tribe, the progeny is then called a Bhat Rana. The Matwala Khas does not wear the thread. He eats and drinks and in every way assimilates himself with the Magars and Gurungs. He invariably claims to be a Magar. Amongst the Matwala Khas are to be found those who call themselves Bohra, Roka, Chohan, Jhankri, etc. These are easy to identify, but it is more difficult to find out a Matwala who calls himself a Thapa. His strong Magar appearance, his not wearing the thread, and his eating and drinking freely with the real Magars, all tend to prove him to be what he almost invariably claims to be, viz., a real Magar. The writer has found men in the ranks who for years had served as and been considered Magars, but who really were Matwala Khas. Some very excellent results are obtained amongst the Matwala Khas, although the greater proportion are coarse-bred and undesirable.(p. 70)

Of very ancient Magar history we know nothing, and the first time that they came into prominence as a great power is about AD 1100, when hear that Mukunda Sena, the Magar King of Palpa and Botwal, invaded and conquered the Nepal Valley, and committed terrible atrocities during the reign of Hari Deva, King of Nepal.

The principal seat of the Magars was most of the central and lower parts of the mountains between the Jhingrak ( Rapti of Gorakhpur) and Marsiangdi rivers. That they resided about Palpa from time immemorial is well known. Doctor F. Hamilton in book published in 1819 says that the Magars, who resided to the west of the Gandak River, seem to have received the Rajput princes with much cordiality. Until the arrival of Rajputs and Brahmans, the hill tribes seem all to have eaten every kind of animal food, including the cow. Each tribe appears originally to have had a priesthood and duties peculiar to itself, and to have worshiped chiefly ghosts.

The Magars have for many centuries more or less admitted the supremacy of the doctrines of the Brahmans, and consequently they have adopted many Rajput customs, ceremonies, and names. The Gurungs also, but to a very much lesser degree, have borrowed from Rajputs, but this does not give either of these two tribes any claim to any other descent than Mongolian.

Owing to the geographical position of the tract of country inhabited by the Magars, they were the first to receive immigrants from the plains of India, and thus conversions were more numerous amongst the Magars than any of the other tribes living further north or east.


I am interested to organize a detailed research on the history, origin, language, culture of this community. Does any one have the idea of how to do it or is any one interested in this work. I think it will be a great research work.

Read more

Akkha Rikka: Whose script is this?

As I belong to Magar community, I thought of publishing this piece of information received from emails of BK Rana and MS Thapa. I request all Magar bandhus and other alike to disseminate this information and invite scholars to this forum for their views.

BK Rana writes:
I am writing on the AKKHA script. M. S. Thapa claims Magars belong the script. I am also fully aware that Magar youths in some outposts publish booklets, newspapers and calendars in AKKHA script. Can we discuss on AKKHA script again so that the claim could be established? ‘Maankulam’ a Tamil Brhami script also looks like Brahmi. Let us renew the discussion.

MS Thapa writes:
I'm still fully convinced that the so called BRAHMA LIPI is not of Aryans as they claim. According to Buddhist text the oldest script of this continent is clearly named AKHARIKA which means " Varna Mala" in Magar language. No other languages, except Magar, can claim "RIKAA" as script. The word RIKAA means Script or Alphabet in classical Magar language. It was the first invention of Magar ancestors that pervaded through out the Indian continent. That is why it was and is called BRAHMA-the universal not BRAHMIN as claimed by BRAHMINS of Aryan stock.This RIKAA was copied by Tamil, Gujtarati, Bengali, GURUMUKHI, BURMA, Thailand and Sombhota of Tibet etc and they edited it according to their phonetics. If we accept it of BRAHMIN ARYAN why it is not found in SINDHU Valley? the first civilization place of ARYAN ( though I am not convinced about it ). DO we find it in KHAJURA, HADAPPA and MOHEJODORA in west Pakistan, the most ancient places of ARYANS ?So the claim about this Akharika by Aryan or others are like "tala parepani khutta ta maathi chha ."

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Welcome to this blog. This blog is about the history, culture and politics of Nepalese societies.  Please share your views directly to my email or place your comments in the site. Thanks.

Dr. Govind Prasad Thapa
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